<BIG>The Thong Wearers Message Board </BIG> is the place for people who wear a thong or a g-string at the beach.
The Thong Wearers Message Board The place for people who wear a thong or a g-string at the beach.
..

ThongBoard Ticket | Today | Join | Member | Search | Who's On | Help | Sign In | |
ThongBoard > Thong Board > Coastal beaches for thonging in the US and Canada Go to subcategory:
Author Content
TJ-22 #51

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/09/2006 12:16:22Copy HTML

I have not been to Assateague yet this year.  Do they currently have the far north "roped off" (to protect the piping plovers during breeding season, I think) as it was during the early summer last year?  Or is it wide open all the way to the north end, as it was during the late summer last year? 
NoTanLinesToo #52

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/09/2006 10:53:47Copy HTML

I wasn't sure if I should start a new topic or not, but I was wondering about the beach camping at Assateaugue.  There was an interesting article in the Washington Post last weekend about camping right on the beach (Washington Post article "Sleeping on the Seashore").  More specifically, has anyone camped there, and if so, how far do you have to go to get to a spot on the beach for sunbathing?  Are the beaches hard enough to ride a bicycle on, or is it really soft sand?  Any information is appreciated!

Thanks in advance!

NoTanLines

ctmonline #53

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/09/2006 11:42:42Copy HTML

TJ-22...the majority of the north beach is open except for the northernmost portion where the beach narrows down to a point due to bird nesting, we usually walk all the way to this portion before setting up, that's where the majority of the thongers/nudists hang out as well.

NoTanLinesToo...I don't know about camping but I really doubt that you could ride a bicycle on the beach at Assateague, the sand isn't heavily traveled and has a lot of high and low spots due to erosion, this isn't Daytona Beach.

Jman71 #54

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/10/2006 11:56:30Copy HTML

The official campsites are very close to the shore, about 200 yards. However if you are referring to the northern thong/nude shore area, that's a different matter. The campsites are about 3-4 miles away from the thong/nude area. I could be wrong, but I don't think the NPS will allow you to set up a tent just anywhere on the beach. You could always contact them to ask anyways.

You can see the official campsite areas on these maps from the NPS Assateague Island website:
http://www.nps.gov/asis/pphtml/maps.html

As far as biking, CTMOnline is correct in that the sand is very soft and would also make for quite a workout. Bikes may also be prohibited on the beach area. There are official bike paths, but none that go that far north to the thong/nude area.
http://www.nps.gov/asis/biking.htm

I do recall seeing an offroad access trail close to SINEPUXENT BAY that ran north parallel to the beach. But this road may be reserved for NPS personnel only. I would say that this trail is about half a kilometer due west from the shore, I'm afraid I can't tell you how far north this access trail goes.

I haven't had the free time to visit Assateague yet this year, I hope to do so soon though. Summer doesn't officially start for me until I'm lying out on the beach in a thong!
TJ-22 #55

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/23/2006 05:37:18Copy HTML

I did get to Assateague this past week.  Saw several other thongers (on a weekday), most of whom were nudists-in-waiting (waiting for the park police to complete their drive past, that is).  Everyone seemed to be very friendly.  That's one thing I really like about Assateague.

This is my third visit in total (over the past two years), and the third different arrangement for how far you could walk.  This time, the "roping off" for the bird nesting area covers the western two-thirds of the island, but leaves the beach and a strip of sand next to it as open for walking -- apparently all the way to the north end of the island.  This strip was plenty wide enough for all of us, with room to spare.  The low dunes a little further north, where I saw nudists hanging out last summer, though, were off limits (behind the line of signs). 

ctmonline #56

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 02:43:19Copy HTML

*** New INDECENT EXPOSURE Policy at ASSATEAGUE ***

I drove down to Assateague today, as I have for the past four years, to go swim and tan in my thong. When I arrived at the north beach section the ranger passed me in his truck as he was headed the same direction (north). When the ranger approached the first thonger in sight, he immediately jumped out of his truck and started writing the guy up (warning-only), then he forced the guy to put on at least a speedo before moving further down the beach.

I walked a little further down the beach, that was when I noticed an older couple that are regulars at Assateague (nudists), they were fully clothed and hiding underneath their umbrella. I approached them and asked them what was going on, they said that they think thongs are illegal at Assateague now, even though the rest of the state of Maryland allows them...just go to Ocean City and you'll see plenty of girls wearing them...even on the boardwalk, the older couple seemed very unsure and visably upset. The ranger had parked on the beach nearby, the couple asked me to go and ask the ranger what was going on, since I was still fully-clothed I decided to go find out from the source.

I approached the ranger and asked him if there was a new swimwear policy in effect at Assateague, he responded by letting me look at a laminated copy of the "INDECENT EXPOSURE rules for Assateague" that he had in a folder in his truck, it clearly listed "genitals, breasts, and buttocks" as indecent and against the rules. I then asked him if this included thongs, he quickly said yes, the buttocks have to be covered for both males and females.

I told him that my wife and I have been coming to Assateague for four years and thongs have always been permitted, the ranger stated that these rules have always been on the books but they were rarely enforced, he said that the park administration has been receiving a lot of complaints about the north beach area lately...he mentioned public nudity, sexual behavior, perverts, etc...he said the park administration has also been reading the websites that claim Assateague as a nude beach and they're trying to erase this bad public image from the park.

The ranger said that this week he was giving out written warnings for thongs, next week he said it will be an immediate $300 fine for the first offense.  The ranger didn't seem to thrilled about all of this but he was very respectful towards me and my questioning...as I was to him...he even thanked me for asking as I turned around to go home.

It was nice at Assateague while it lasted, you won't see me there again with the threat of a $300 fine, my disappointment is beyond words at this moment. We need to find a new spot, thongs are legal in Ocean City if anyone wants to get together, my backyard will have to do until then.

thonginthesun #57

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 04:42:07Copy HTML

ARGH! OH NO. This is terrible news. I wonder who makes this interpretation. How can this be fought?
thonginthesun #58

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 04:49:13Copy HTML

As I said in the thread above, this is terrible news. Has anybody seen the citation in the law of what is considered "indecent exposure" in Maryland. It seems as the weather gets warmer, we'll have to be covering up even more. I saw a picture of a beach in California (in a news story about the heat) and all the guys were in knee-length board shorts...what sense does this make, except to the Taliban??
thonginthesun #59

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 04:54:40Copy HTML

Would it be possible to get a copy of whatever it was the Ranger was showing as policy on indecent exposure? It might be of interest to the Message Board. I assume it was a State rule, since it's a State park. How can it be different in different state parks? Will they apply it over here at Sandy Point State Park? Shudder.
ctmonline #60

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 05:26:20Copy HTML

Thonginthesun,

           At least you've got Sandy Point nearby that you can go to, living in conservative southern Delaware, my options are limited. The north beach portion of Assateague is part of the National Park, the state park portion of Assateague is only where the main family beach is I believe, the park ranger was in a white pickup with green "park ranger" written on the side...is this a state or federal ranger??? What I did today was more than most are willing to do, approaching and questioning a ranger at Assateague, usually everyone hides from them and hopes for the best. The copy of the rules that I was shown appeared to be very old, maybe it was dug up from the archives or even taken from another state or area, regardless of where it came from...this is what they're enforcing with the backing/pressure of the park administration. I'm not going back there, the threat of a $300 fine for a wearing a thong is too much to risk for me, maybe we can find a quiet spot somewhere in Ocean City.

JM_Runs #61

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 05:56:16Copy HTML

It would help if we knew if the regulation was State or Federal, and if it's a regulation or a law.   Guess we will know that when the first person who is a member of this board gets writen up.

It goes to show that thongers have a vested interest in protecting their right to thong, before new directives come down from on-high. That includes keeping the pervs in line and helping the local rangers keep the place more or less PG. There are a number of steps to take, an they are better as pro-active steps, but in your case they are going to be re-active.

  • Build bridges to the park rangers. Work with them to curb abuse. Get them to see you as helpful.
  • Form a small group of like minded people.
  • Form allegiances with other user groups including the local "Friends of the park"
  • Work with all other intrest groups to find common ground.  (That includes the park management)
  • Let people who go too far know, and if they continue, work with the rangers to curb problems.
  • Don't be the ones hiding in the dunes.
  • Be part of the solution and not part of the problem.

There is more, but that's a start. You are going to find it difficult to band together with other thong users after the ban, because they may be covered up and you will not know they want to thong, or they may stop coming.

Nope, I am not doing it for you, and we have no national orgnisation.  YOU have to do it at the local level.

mdskimpyman #62

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 08:05:58Copy HTML

The Assateague Barrier Island is techniclally a National (ie Federal) National Seashore Wildlife preserve. The North end has a concurrent jurisdiction with the State of Maryland.  The pickup truck that was seen with the ranger is most likely a state official since the facilities there (food, concessions ahd souvenir shop) at the north end are both sponsored by and administered by the State of Maryland.  The concurrent jurisdiction allows for both state and federal park rangers to enforce both federal laws and local state statutes in the park area.  That been said....we all know that tthe State has an indecent exposure statute but the statute was shown in court to not prohibit the exposure of buttocks (the case in which a man who mooned someone being charged with indecent exposure).  That much was proven in the courts as was listed and cited in other parts of this message board.  Sandy Point is a state park....the park rangers there don't seem too concerned about thongs and municipal officials don't seem to be concerned about them in Ocean City (at least on women) due probably to this court ruling.  My point is this folks....in order for an official to have the authority to issue a citation that carries either a monetary or jailtime sanction there MUST be a law or ordinance on the books (municipal, county, state or federal) that specifies clearly the offense and under whose jurisdiction and authority the offense rests.  I would be very interested in seeing the actual written "warning citation" that was given to person in question. Did Mr. Ranger  say which court you would be appearing before if you refused to pay the $300 fine.  I don't really think that the park administration can simply start writing tickets for infractions of park policies and made up regulations and make them stick in court unless there is some statute that states that simply entering the park premises constitutes a tacit waiving of rights.  Anyway, it would be really interesting if we had some attorneys out there on this message board who could research it because it really sounds fishy.  Perhaps our wonderful representatives in Annapolis tweaked the indecent exposure statute during the last session.  More likely, this is an attempt to intimidate people by the park administration because some zealot wants to do something about the "bad public image."

In the mean time, I suggest we find what the limits are for "breast and buttock exposure".  Genitalia is fairly clear cut but breast and buttock exposure is pretty damn vague if you ask me....if women wear triangle tops that pretty much cover the nipples only....are they guilty of expsosing the breasts?  What if the outlines of their nipples show through when the suit is wet?  I have taken to wearing the Skinz Super Low Rio....it covers only about half my buttocks and allows just bit of "butt cleavage"....will I be guilty of indecent exposure?....I am sure going to find out!  Because there are plenty of women who walk the public beaches of Assateague wearing just that!  I know we all love thongs but there is alot of fun minimal swimwear out there that just might confound the silly authorities.  I love Assateague too much to simply not go....but I have friends who are attorneys and I am going to find out about this....and maybe pay one to draft a letter directly to the park administration demanding an explanation.  I was just getting my wife comfortable with wearing a Wicked Weasel there and this is most disconcerting.

JM_Runs #63

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 09:27:01Copy HTML

I think you are head in the right direction except for one part, the "demanding an explanation" bit. I think you should first find out what their concerns are. Who are they and what are they trying to achieve?

Then you have two options: The fist is to try to drive a wedge between thongers and the boggy man, the second is to try and work with them to eliminate the boggy man.

To try the "but I am just a thonger and this is allowed because of xxxxxx" is the wedge approach. You are trying to separate your selves from the people that they perceive they have a problem with. You may do that in a confrontational way, in court, or by trying to drive your wedge through the bureaucratic crocodile and break a link in it's backbone. Either way you are trying to detach your activity from the perceived problem.

Option two takes less money and effort, but probably more time. Figure out how this new edict came to be. Was it a city, county or planing meeting? Was it caused by a police incident, a civic association, or is it just a new park manager in town?

What is the problem they perceive? How can you keep thonging legal, but help them cure the problem they perceive.... Don't assume you have to take on the state or the feds in a confrontational way, when it may be just a little adjustment in policy is needed at the critical point.

As a general rule, if you embarrass or confront a public official they are likely to react by digging their heals in. The first thing they do is call on other government agencies and the wagons circle to protect one of their own. What you need to do is help the process along, not by confronting it head on, but by redirecting it a bit so it heads off in a slightly different direction. Think about it as helping to narrow and focus the energy on the real problem.

ctmonline #64

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 10:00:56Copy HTML

...the ranger said all of this came about because "nudists bring in other people, bad crowds, perverts, etc." and "these people caused problems" which made "families complain to the administration". I was surprised that the ranger mentioned the internet as a source of information regarding illegal activities at Assateague, if they're checking up on us to this extent, then we need to be more careful of what we type. My wife and I are not in the position to fight the authorities publicly at Assateague due to our jobs, we would be willing to sign a petition or something, but anymore than that is too much of a risk for us so close to home. Let us know if anyone makes any sense out of today's unfortunate turn of events.
JM_Runs #65

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 11:21:19Copy HTML

thonginthesun #66

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/29/2006 11:57:25Copy HTML

This situation is really beginning to irritate me. I wonder how park rangers will determine what is "indecent exposure" of the buttocks. 75%? 50%? 25%? Will they carry measuring tapes to determine what is acceptable? I have noticed that many styles of women's swimwear expose a good portion of the buttocks, even one-piece suits. Will these also be regulated by state or federal authorities?  I can accept regulation of nudity, but that isn't our problem. Let them enforce whatever anti-nudity statutes there are, but don't infringe on the free expression of thongers.

I am contemplating a letter to Assateague park authorities inquiring about this regulation, although I agree that it should probably be written by an attorney. Are there any on the Board? I also think a copy of the letter should be sent to the Maryland branch of the American Civil Liberties Union (not that they don't have enough to do these days). I would welcome any suggestions as to the content of such a letter.

ctmonline #67

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/30/2006 07:41:09Copy HTML

I'm just as upset as everyone else here, after four years of trying to talk my wife into wearing thongs close to home at Assateague, she finally decided to join me this year. We did manage to thong together a few times this year before this week and it was wonderful, the numbers of friendly thong couples & singles seemed to be increasing nicely, it seemed that Assateague was becoming our own little "south beach"...this may be ruined now.

***I just remember something that the ranger said that may help us clear up things a little.

        ...I asked: "so we can't wear thongs anymore?"

        ...he replied: "you mean a string between the buttocks?"

        ...I said: "yes"...not thinking to elaborate on exposure at the time.

    **We need clarification on how much exposure of the buttocks is allowed, how wide do towns with anti-thong ordinances require the rear of a swimsuit to be, places like Myrtle Beach and Clearwater, FL??? I have suits from Dore with 2", 4", & 6" backs...which one of these will meet the requirements before I risk getting a fine??? 

ctmonline #68

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/30/2006 07:37:29Copy HTML

I just came up with another option, about four years ago my wife and I were regulars at the "south beach" portion of the National Seashore (the last parking lot before the off-road area) before we knew about the 'north beach" portion of the state park, we rarely had a any rangers drive by and we thonged without any problems. We're thinking about trying this portion of Assateague again, the spotlight seems to be on the "north beach" right now for swimwear enforcement, maybe the national park rangers will have a different outlook. Any thoughts...
elp_gr #69

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/31/2006 02:22:41Copy HTML

I've SO had it with the "indecent exposure" thing. How thick-headed can they be to understand that they can't police people's clothes and that they cannot judge someone by the clothes s/he wears?
JM_Runs #70

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/31/2006 02:42:32Copy HTML

Is this "south beach" portion populated by just regular folks?  If is is, and they're no more uptight about the occasional thonger acting completely respectably as the regular folk at East Beach in RI, then you should have no problem, presuming different laws apply and buttocks can be exposed.  I had a wonderful day Saturday at East Beach, surrounded by regular folks, including families with lots of children, and they didn't seem to care a whit, even nodded greetings as I passed when returning from a long swim.  Being the only thonger in that area, I must have been perceived as no threat.  Would have been even better, I'm sure, if my wife had joined me that day. 
ctmonline #71

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/31/2006 06:30:23Copy HTML

SlidingG,

              Yes, the south beach is sparsley populated with regular folks, most people don't even know it's there, this is because you have to drive past the main beach parking lot  to the last small lot on the left just before the off-road area...this is in the National Park portion of the park. The newly targeted "thong-law" at "north beach" in the State Park is aimed primarily at "the nudists and the perverts that come with them", to quote the park ranger, that is why this portion of Assateague is in the spotlight. We're just as guilty as anyone else for pushing the limits of public nudity at Assateague, but I think if we don't do anything outrageously against the law at the "south beach"...like running around nude....we shouldn't have any problems. We'll see later this week.

mdskimpyman #72

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/31/2006 07:29:16Copy HTML

Everyone has been elaborating on the point that I was trying to make....In some parts of Florida, officials indeed have had to carry measuring tape with them because anything that has to defended in court MUST be very specific.  Many Florida local ordinances actually specify a width of the swimsuit in the rear that is the "minimum" that you can wear; this because people have challenged it in court....To me this is so absurd that elected officials spend their time thinking this crap up.  I think that the Assateague park officials are really just winging it on this.  I really want to know whose has the jurisdiction on this because it can't just be the park administration...they don't have their own court of law.
royal thong #73

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:07/31/2006 10:40:46Copy HTML

Just read the news--this is what the rangers stated to me in early July--about the indecent exposure laws. 

i did go to the maryland statutes after the second time I was approached(though not an atty) to glean what the law does say and couldn't find anything substantive regarding public indecency, but I didn't put more into it because the last time I was there there were a number of thongers and the rangers never stopped me or anyone else wearing a thong.

too bad -- let us know what it's like on the "south side" -- i'm in the same boat as ctmonline--I'm not in a position to publicly challenge the "law" and be a test case nor can  I risk getting an indecency citation for wearing a thong.

If the national beach pans out, let us know.

 

thonginthesun #74

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/01/2006 06:50:37Copy HTML

I, too, would like to hear the latest experiences at Assateague, MD., since I will be at the southern end of the island next week and was hoping to be able to drive up to the MD end to do some thonging. But, if it's all to no avail, I won't waste my time. I just can't bare it anymore!
JM_Runs #75

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/01/2006 09:51:49Copy HTML

Having been involved with naturist issues at Assateague for many years, one of the problems is that few of the regulars live close enough to put in a consistent "on duty" presence to act as beach ambassadors and self-police as happens at places like Haulover. So besides the people who are just there for the relaxed dress code, you also get all sorts of pervs who cause problems. This gets the locals upset, and especially in an election cycle, actions get taken. Except for the occaisional ranger who has an issue, most of them were pretty tolerant of respectful beach users. The people who caused problems were the ones who wanted to do god knows what in the dunes, disturb the bird nesting areas, etc.

If there was an active crew of regulars who informed (reminded?) people of appropriate behavior, and called the rangers whenever there was unsavory stuff going on, instead of looking the other way, things might be different. Doing an organized beach cleanup or two wouldn't hurt either.
JM_Runs #76

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/01/2006 12:41:57Copy HTML

Maybe the way to manage the situation when people are not their is to have informational signs stating what is and is not appropriate behavior.   After all, where I live we have local ordnances on my beach that prohibit camping, open fires, kites or other aerial things that could strike people.  We have ordnances about no glass, no solicitation, no cruising (on the road),  no dogs on the beach, etc.  Most people obey the signs. 

Maybe whats needed is some sign that spells it out what wont be allowed.  No overt sexual activity, no taking of pictures without permission, no lurking.  (In Miami the city run  nude beach at haulover has signs about photos, activity and such).

Maybe you can do a collaborative project between the park and the thong - nudist groups.   The signs could also list a phone number for people to call if they observe problematic behavior.   If regular folk need to take an active part in curbing activity of the few people that are a abusing the freedoms.   Become part of the solution, not part of the problem.

ctmonline #77

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 02:17:53Copy HTML

***I just had my wife call the ranger station:     Assateague National Park

                                                                                  Sinepuxent District

                                                                                  Maryland Ranger Station and Campground Office

                                                                                  #1-410-641-3030

**My wife had a long conversation on the phone today with the head ranger at the above location. The ranger told her that the rules they're enforcing on the beach right now are FEDERAL laws,  not state laws, they told her that the Federal laws govern the entire park...north and south. She asked the ranger how big the back of the suit had to be to avoid the ticket, the ranger told her that it was up to the ranger on duty how much to allow, she mentioned a "rio" back suit and the ranger said that he wasn't sure about them being permitted either. The head ranger told her that the actual set of rules for the park are still being determined by the court, he said that the rules should be done in about a month, at which time they'll be posted publicly with the actual coverage requirements permitted. The ranger told her that right now the rangers are primarily giving out "written warnings" for most violations( but they've given out fines already to frequent offenders), these stay within the park system and don't go on your record, but if you're fined then "you will have to pay the ticket or go fight it at the courthouse in Salisbury, Maryland and let the judge determine whether you broke the law or not"...this will go on your permanent federal record if you're found guilty...meaning a bigger fine and possibly jail time. ***

***Where do we go from here, the entire island of Assateague is now off limits to thongers now, things have gone from bad to worse.***

JM_Runs #78

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 02:31:42Copy HTML

They fed you a line. It's not a federal law.
thonginthesun #79

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 04:29:44Copy HTML

I agree with flnkd...that is a crock...there is no such Federal law. If there were, how could you have beaches in Florida, New Jersey, California, etc. that allow thongs of various sorts and sizes?
ctmonline #80

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 04:41:21Copy HTML

Flnkdguy & Thonginthesun,

          The phone number is right there in front of you, go ahead and call them yourself if you want, see what kind of "line" that you get. If it's "not a law",  then why don't the both of you go down there right now in your thongs, after you guys take it to court and ruin your federal records, we'll all make sure that we visit you in jail when we can. We're doing all we can to get to the bottom of this mess, right now all we can do is report what the rangers tell us, when will some of the big talkers on this board stand up and join the fight. We're very frustrated, we need to get together and fight this, has anyone contacted a lawyer or politician yet???

mdskimpyman #81

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 06:34:36Copy HTML

I am going to be making a call to this ranger but not before I gather some more information....but I do have some...

First, after using FindLaw.com and some other resourses on the internet....there is NO Federal law reguarding either indecent exposure or public nudity....that is an issue that is totally up to each state to determine with each state limiting it as they see fit...and in some places like California and Florida, individual municipalities may make their own ordinances that are more restrictive than the states law.   While federal law does not guarantee beach nudity as a right, it does not explicitly prohibit it either.

Second:  The crime of indecent exposure in most states including Maryland is the "purposeful display one's genitals in public, with the intent to cause alarm or offence".  Please note that to commit this crime, you MUST be trying to be a pervert!  There are many cases throughout the land that have shown that simple beach nudity (or nude sunbathing in other areas of the country) is not the crime of indecent exposure.

Third:  it is simply impossible for individual rangers to be making judgments about proper swimwear attire without some sort of training.  The head ranger has to know this and should be giving out some sort of criteria to all who work under him.  Yet he will not tell the public what the criteria is because he says that the court is coming up with "the rules"?  Which court? If this is what he really is saying than how stupid does he think people are....despite what is in the media these days....judges are not activists...they don't make up rules....they rule on cases (guilty or not guilty in criminal cases....for the plaintive or the defendant in other cases) that are before them in the court of law and then those rulings serve as precedents for other similar cases unless a ruling is overturned on appeal.

All this seems to me to be the worst possible kind of policy making...it has the effect of empowering the most prudish and mean spirited among us to complain and find falt....There are those who instantly react to a man wearing a Speedo as cause for alarm and offense and without thinking, suspect the man of being some sort of pervert...if these people think that they can get satisfaction from the authorities by complaining they will.  How do I know this?  Because the pool director at my local YMCA told me that some busy body lady didn't think my Tyr racing swimsuit in which I swim laps in, was appropriate in front of her children!!  She thought it was a funny story, not to be taken seriously....but I find it sinister.

In closing this...I suspect that the charge that is being made to thong wearers is not indecent exposure because it simply cannot be that....what I think it might be is something more along the lines of disruptive behavior...not obeying established park policies....disobeying a park ranger.....there are alot of other things that they may be trying to use against people.  Notice that the ranger said that there is not record (except park records) unless you challenge it.  Then I bet the actual court charge is something quite different than "you are guilty of wearing a thong."

Please give any comment to me on this....I am trying to make sure that I have looked at this from every angle before I call this ranger myself.

 

JM_Runs #82

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 07:13:55Copy HTML

I no longer live anywhere near that area, but I can assure you that unless things have changed VERY recently, non-sexual nudity on federal seashores is perfectly OK, unless overriden by local concurrent jurisdiction. i.e. you have been lied to.

I suggest you wander over to AANR.com and talk to their government affairs people. They have been involved in this issue many times. The Naturist Society too, but last I heard they shifted policy and pretty much abandoned efforts on keeping the MD part of Assateague free for respectful nude use.

JM_Runs #83

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 07:18:57Copy HTML

...and I do feel for you guys. Assateague is a beautiful place and it sucks that they're cracking down. I have many fond memories of naked afternoons there enjoying the beach and swimming.

This is what happens when we see bad behavior at the beach and look the other way, though. :-( You need to make the pervs know they are not welcome, and then law enforcement will have less to worry about.
mdskimpyman #84

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 07:38:16Copy HTML

Maybe I am just naive or something but....in all the years that I have been going to Assateague, I have not seen this perverted activity....sure I suspected that some of the single guys going around nude perhaps got their jollys being seen naked by a woman....but I never witnessed any threatening behavior....everyone covered up and was careful when clothed people came around.  My wife and I went their to sunbathe.  And from what we saw, that is what others went there to do....let me tell you....my wife was and is very very sensitive to anything that could be construed as sexual perversity and there would never have been any way to get her to wear a thong bikini if she sensed that atmosphere in the slightest way.
JM_Runs #85

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/02/2006 11:31:53Copy HTML

This may help:  http://www.nudist-resorts.org/statutes.htm  also http://www.nudistlaw.com/state_laws.htm  but some towns may have more restrictive laws.

You may find the following interesting:

Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, January 4, 2006; Page B01

Acquitting a Germantown man who exposed his buttocks during an argument with a neighbor, a Montgomery County Circuit Court judge ruled yesterday that mooning, while distasteful, is not illegal in Maryland.

"If exposure of half of the buttock constituted indecent exposure, any woman wearing a thong at the beach at Ocean City would be guilty," Judge John W. Debelius III said after the bench trial, reversing the ruling of a District Court judge.

Debelius made clear his disdain for the defendant, calling the alleged act "disgusting" and "demeaning." The outcome could have been different, he suggested, if the man had been on trial for "being a jerk."

The case arose from a June 7 argument between the defendant, Raymond Hugh McNealy, 44, and a neighbor, Nanette Vonfeldt. Vonfeldt pressed charges against McNealy after he allegedly yelled and, according to Vonfeldt, threatened to "blow up my building" as she and her 8-year-old daughter walked out of their apartment, in the 20200 block of Shipley Terrace in Germantown.

"Then, for whatever reason, in full view of my daughter, he mooned us," Vonfeldt wrote in a court document. The two had a long-standing feud over issues before their homeowners association, which held a heated meeting the night before, McNealy's attorneys said. McNealy wanted Vonfeldt off the association's board, his attorneys said.

The case went to trial Sept. 12 before Montgomery District Court Judge Eugene Wolfe, who ruled against the defendant. Indecent exposure in Maryland is punishable by as much as three years in prison and a $1,000 fine.

McNealy's attorneys appealed the verdict, arguing that indecent exposure in Maryland constitutes the willful public display of a person's "private parts" -- which, they argued, do not include a person's buttocks.

Senior Assistant State's Attorney Dan Barnett said the indecent exposure law in Maryland is ambiguous.

"In our minds, this was not a bathing suit scenario," said Barnett, who supervises Montgomery County prosecutors who handle cases in District Court. "This was a grown man exposing himself to an 8-year-old girl."

Defense attorneys cited a 1983 case of a woman who was arrested after protesting in front of the U.S. Supreme Court wearing nothing but a cardboard sign that covered the front of her body. The D.C. Court of Appeals ruled in 1986 that indecent exposure is limited to a person's genitals.

James Maxwell, one of McNealy's attorneys, said yesterday's ruling should "bring comfort to all beachgoers and plumbers" in the state.

My take on all this is if you wear a thong that fully covers the genitals, and covers the anus, and it is not mesh, not transparent, not designed to expose or display what it should be hiding....  then I think you will be ok.    Just thong responsibly and make sure you don't look nude from a distance.  

It seems that what they are trying to crack down on is nudity.  While I think you can make a good argument that part of the beach should be, and has traditionaly been nude,  until you have a local ordance to that affect it is still not legal in Maryland to go nude, because you are exposing the genitals.   Therefore if you go nude, or look nude from a distance, they are going to come down and check you out, and that's the first stage of getting a ticket.  

Don't lurk or hide in the dunes, or guilty dive for cover when the rangers come by, otherwise they will think you are goin nude and be over to see what you are up to.

It might help to be seen walking along the beach in your thong carrying a shopping bag, picking up garbage that others have left behind, or that gets washed up on the beach.  Rangers respect people who help keep parks clean. 

ctmonline #86

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/03/2006 12:02:46Copy HTML

Thanks for the article JM, I read it when it first came out in the news months ago, the only problem is that the rangers at Assateague are making up their own rules now. The rangers at Assateague are also telling people that thongs are illegal in the entire state of Maryland including Ocean City, don't they think people read the papers, just walk down the boardwalk in Ocean City and you'll know they're full of it. I believe that the park administration is basically telling the rangers to intimidate and threaten anyone who is scantily-clad on the beach, we've pushed their buttons for too long (unacceptable behavior, sex on the beach, nudity, etc.), now they've gone crazy...they've turned into the bathing suit patrol. When I was at Assateague last week for a few minutes, I watched a ranger almost drive his truck into the surf while checking out peoples swimwear, the couple he was checking on were sitting in chairs and fully clothed (shorts & t-shirts)!!!
thonginthesun #87

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/03/2006 08:59:45Copy HTML

Thanks for this useful information, JM, particularly the following:

The D.C. Court of Appeals ruled in 1986 that indecent exposure is limited to a person's genitals.

The earlier discussions, particularly the mention to ctmonline of an opportunity to comment, seemed to indicate that might be some sort of federal rulemaking going on (Department of Interior?). If there is such a rulemaking, I hope we can find out more about it so all interested parties do comment, including bringing the above ruling to their attention. And, if it is a federal rulemaking, it would seem it would apply more widely than just to Assateague.

 

 

thonginthesun #88

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/03/2006 11:53:52Copy HTML

Some further prowling on the internet found a paper entitled "Revealing the Bare Necessities of Indecent Exposure," by Jeffrey C. Narvil of the Columbia University School of Law (Columbia Journal of Law and Social Problems, Fall, 1995). This paper, while focusing on laws concerning what is considered public indeceny in terms of nudity, it provides an excellent review of state statutes defining what degree of nudity is and is not acceptable under state public decency statutes, with, I believe, implications for thongers. A few excerpts follow:

"Rather than forcing individuals to rely on notions of immodest behavior, modern statutes have attempted clearer definitions. More than half of American jurisdictions specifically define exposure to include the genitals or sex organs.48  Seven cite exposure of the anus or buttocks as criminal under varying circumstances.49  Six states include female breasts.50 "

[Maryland is not included among the seven states citing exposure of buttocks as criminal]

"Not surprisingly, most citizens do not wish to subject themselves, their families, or their employers to the embarrassment of receiving a citation or the publicity of an appeal. Prima facie challenges to the validity of the statutes in hypothetical scenarios may be difficult because courts customarily refrain from voiding laws which have yet to be applied against a complainant.113"

 

[We've had some discussion of this problem. Sounds like you have to be fined first.}

 

"This Article has explored the current statutory framework governing displays of non-sexual nudity in public places. The confusion resulting from the combination of vague language and conflicting interpretations fails to deliver precise notice to citizens of what shall be considered unlawful. Individuals who wish to avoid criminal prosecution should enjoy the benefit of more clearly articulated prohibitions. fficeffice" />

However, the recent flurry of legislation introduced in legislatures throughout the ffice:smarttags" />United States is an inappropriate response to the textual weaknesses of modern statutes. Proposed alterations in the law threaten to further circumscribe individual liberty without compelling justification. Undesirable behavior or conduct may be effectively prohibited without broad limitations on non-harmful conduct."

The website address for the paper is: home.att.net/~saran/narvidx.htm

 

Happy Reading!

royal thong #89

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/07/2006 11:34:29Copy HTML

I wonder if mdskimpyman is right in that the ranger(s) are trying to intimidate thongers into (1) either not returning and or (2) wearing suits with more coverage.  So far I've been approached 2x with a cautionary warning, as have others, but not ticketed.  If there is no national indecency law (and common sense indicates that's correct) and they're devising the rules as they go along, it could be an attempt to "scare" thongers into abandoning thonging since at least one ranger thinks it brings "pervs...etc."

What's curious to me is that in one instance, I was the only person approached, when there were others in thongs.

I don't know that I want to risk it, but it's sounding more like an intimidation tactic with the hope that at least in this case, 5 of us, won't go back.  That's five folks that they've gotten rid of artfully, skillfully and silently.

The ranger who stopped me both times was on the young side, probably 35ish, medium build, cropped blonde hair.

 

 

mdskimpyman #90

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/07/2006 01:12:47Copy HTML

Royal Thong, were you indeed wearing a thong at the times that the ranger approached you?  You said others were wearing thongs around you?  Were they male or female? or a couple?  Did you get the "written warning" or a verbal warning?  If the warning was written, what was the "charge"?  Did the official warning carry an offical seal for either county, state or federal government?  if you were laying out backside down, did the ranger ask to "inspect" your swimwear?  Did he ask to see your ID?  Did he just ask for your name and address?  Did he inform you of what you would need to be wearing in order to be in compiance? Does anybody on this message board know of anyone who has gotten the actual fine?

Still trying to figure out just how far big brother is trying to go out on Assateague....I will probably go there this Thurs. and wear my Super Low Rio from Skinz to test the waters so to speak....

DavyJ #91

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/08/2006 09:52:07Copy HTML

Wow, there has sure been a lot of activity on this topic in the past 10 days! And not good activity, either.

Last Friday (July 28) I left on a business trip to Ocean City, MD. Naturally I was looking forward to thonging in my spare time. I had been debating endlessly whether to make the drive down to Assateague for what I assumed would be a quiet, uneventful experience, or simply to thong right in Ocean City where I was staying. Since I don't mind being the only one in a thong, and it was much more convenient, I ended up thonging right on the Ocean City beaches. Little did I realize at the time how lucky a choice that was.

Anyway, I had a great experience. I always got to the beach very early when it wasn't crowded, so I would not intrude on anyone else. Saturday was a very hot day, so by 11 AM the beach was packed.  Zillions of people had crowded right around me! It was quite a rush. I have never thonged on so crowded a beach before.  Most people seemed to be indifferent, but I did overhear some comments.  And of course, there were numerous cameras that always seemed to appear anytime I went in the water.

I did pretty much stick to myself, and always covered up when walking the beach.  During an early walk, I had taken the precaution of asking a lifeguard whether thongs were legal, and he said yes.  So I figured I was safe.  The second day, a woman came over and asked if she could take my picture with her 3 nieces.  They were all around 20-25 and pretty, so of course I obliged.  They insisted on going down to the water, and the entire episode caused quite a scene, as the beach was beginning to fill up at this point.  But I was having a good time and didn't care.

In due course a lifeguard came over to me and noted that she had received several "concerns" (she didn't say "complaints", only "concerns") about my swim suit. I mentioned that I had gotten permission from a lifeguard yesterday, and she agreed I was legal, but wanted me to be aware of other people's concerns (or something like that, I can't remember her exact wording). I told her I had stuck to myself, and always covered up when walking the beach, but, of course, I had been in the water several times.  And I had always lay on my back, not my stomach. She felt that was a reasonable compromise, so she left, and all else was fine the rest of the day.

Anyway, I know this board is divided among those that seek (insist on) solitude when they thong and those, like myself (probably the minority), that don't mind being right in with everybody else, even if they are the only one in a thong.  Anyway, I would definately recommend Ocean City to the latter group, certainly until the rangers at Assateague get their act together.

All in all, a great several days.  And I consider myself really lucky, as I had no idea any of this sh** was going on at Assateague, as I had left town before any of these postings hit.

royal thong #92

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:08/09/2006 11:45:33Copy HTML

mdskimpyman,

in each case I was indeed wearing a thong. THe first time, in APril, the ranger would NOT have known that because he approached me I was lying on my back and I never stood up.  In the second case, I did indeed stand up.

I never gave me name nor did I get anything in writing.

freedownlow #93

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:10/03/2006 01:28:42Copy HTML

Is there any new news on this issue yet, anyone?
ctmonline #94

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:10/04/2006 02:48:08Copy HTML

My wife and I haven't been back since I spoke with the ranger in July about the new indecent exposure rules, we both really miss the experiences that we had there, unless the rangers change their policy...we'll probably never go back...it's not worth the fine in my opinion. I tried to thong as much as possible during our weeklong vacation at Fort Desoto in August, sure wish we had a open-minded spot like that around here, the only beach left that you can legally thong at around here is Ocean City.  
ctmonline #95

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:11/20/2006 06:21:22Copy HTML

...anyone have or hear of any positive developments at Assateague this year???
royal thong #96

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:05/04/2007 11:41:21Copy HTML

anything new regarding Assateague? Has any one ever been on the national park (southern side)?

i went on line looking for the new suit regulations on the assateague website but couldn't find anything that addresses the "new" regulations.

gra7y #97

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:05/04/2007 11:59:00Copy HTML

Check with rogerp. See his post in Thongs in the News. There was a clean-up weekend, I believe, last weekend.
Rover109 #98

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:05/09/2007 01:08:17Copy HTML

I have only been to the Eastern Shore twice in 33 years of living in the Washington area. Once was a cool, windy day that was not particularly pleasant on the beach. In fact, there weren't many on the beach at all but I was able to walk further north along the beach and dispense with my shorts entirely. So that is not a report on thonging. The other time I went somewhere south of Ocean City and had a much nicer day. No one else was on the beach when we got there, so it wasn't long before everything came off. Another guy showed up later and he did the same thing. Again, no thongs.

Only recently has it been possible to check out regulations on line for things like this and a couple of times, I have looked them up but mainly with a view to what they had to say about nudity. It was interesting.

I think I looked up both general regulations and special regulations, which are specific to a particular park. Few of them make any direct reference to nudity or rather, public nudity, and generally it is not allowed. Big surprise. I don't think I searched for thongs at all. Some national seashores specifically prohibit nudity (Cape Cod), other don't mention it at all (Outer Banks). All the national seashore parks go into great detail about driving on the beach, so clearly their problems lie elsewhere, usually.

A couple of national forests, I think, specifically mention that nudity is prohibited beyond a certain point, usually a road, which implies that it is permitted under certain circumstances and in certain places. There were two that said that, I recall, and they were both in California and had hot springs. I'm pretty sure they were national forests and not national parks. Another one somewhere in the east was mentioned by someone else on some other board as permitting nudity but the name and location escapes me now.

I would be surprised if any mention thongs or brief swimwear.

whitebull #99

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:06/02/2007 12:49:11Copy HTML

Anything new at Assateague?  Are the good days gone?  Has the thong been perminately banned there?

 I hope not

ctmonline #100

Re:Assateague Island National Seashore (Just south of Ocean City, MD.)

Date Posted:06/08/2007 12:18:14Copy HTML

My wife and I went to Assateague (old spot north of the state park) on Thursday, June 7th instead of Ocean City as we had originally planned. We decided to go to Assateague instead of OC due to the undesireable crowd there this weekend, they're having an Import Car Show and high school graduation party this weekend, my wife insisted that we avoid OC and check out the scene at Assateague. We got to the spot at 10am, the first thing we saw were two ranger trucks riding up and down the beach slowing down or stopping at every person they came across (harassment), we didn't get or try to get hassled by the rangers due to the threat of fines...my wife wore a rio-back bikini and I wore a Dore push-up front bikini with a three-inch back. During our stay we observed probably six older nudist men, either walking in the dunes or hiding behind their windscreens (not good behavior if you want people to be accepting) , no one was wearing thongs so we don't have any news on that front either...just the same old bullsh*t abuse of authority at Assateague!!!
Please cutback on starting new threads and try to post messages as a reply to existing threads.
If you want to cut and paste from your word processor do not do it directly.
First paste it into notepad or other basic ascii editor so that the formatting codes are removed, then cut again. This will give you clean posts.
Copyright © 2000-2018 Aimoo Free Forum All rights reserved.