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Mary0826

Date Posted:02/11/2019 07:56:34Copy HTML

Back in the 1920's and into the 1930's, men were required to wear tops.  It looks like within 10 years, most men stopped wearing tops once society permitted it -- even at places where it was technically illegal.  If such laws were re-instated or new one passed (perhaps as part of a "equal rights" for women campaign), how long do you think all tops would become optional in swimming and sunning locations?


Beached_Santa_Cruz #1

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:02/12/2019 03:57:31Copy HTML

That reminds me of something that happened where I used to work. We had a weight room that had "women only hours" and "men only hours". Because of meetings, work demand, etc it wasn't always convenient to work out at the appropriate time. So occasionally I would go in during women only times. When it was "men only time" there were always women in the weight room. After several months of the split times I was in during the "women only times" when there was no one in the room. A woman walked in , turned around, walked out, then returned with the person in charge of the weight room to ask me to leave. A couple of weeks later the same thing happened to me with the same woman. So the next time I went in during the "men only time" there were several women in the room. I went up to the desk and demanded they be thrown out. To say the least they were a bit pissed. Another week later, same thing. I had more women thrown out. A week later the sign specifying men and women's hours was taken down. Making everything equal will quickly change things.
ohiothonger #2

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:02/12/2019 05:32:59Copy HTML

I like the thought in general -- make the same rules for everyone. However, even if you could do that (pretty slim chance,) and even if women's rules permitted topfreedom across the board, I doubt if much would change much from the way things are now. The people still have to go along with a rule stupid or logical. I think very few additional women would go topfree and very few men would wear thongs for that matter. It would take a major political/social effort to get such changes accepted by the majority of the people, and an even bigger effort to get people to actually participate themselves. Until then, women who are topfree will continue to be sluts, and men in thongs would still be unacceptable too. But who knows? The thong look was not supposed to reappear in our lifetimes, and then over a period of half a decade or so, they are now generally accepted and popularly worn in some locations and under certain situations.
Maxtlatl #3

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:02/12/2019 10:08:16Copy HTML

BTW, last week the New Hampshire Supreme Court upheld a local ordinance under which 3 women were charged for exposing their nipples. It had the usual women-are-inherently-different-so-we-can-discriminate-here excuse. Here's the court's ruling: https://www.courts.state.nh.us/supreme/opinions/2019/2019012lilley.pdf
Maxtlatl #4

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:02/17/2019 02:51:48Copy HTML

And on a brighter note, that past Friday, the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals (which covers Colorado, New Mexico, Kansas, Oklahoma, Utah, and Wyoming) ruled in favor of "Free the Nipple", saying that forcing women to cover their breasts violated their equal protection rights. The opinion is available here: https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/17/17-1103.pdf There is now a circuit split (with the 7th Circuit having ruled the opposite in a Chicago case). In some ways this worries me, since that often will lead to the Supreme Court examining an issue, and I have zero faith in the current Supreme Court make-up. However, I wouldn't mind being surprised.
JayByrd #5

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:02/18/2019 12:56:43Copy HTML

I don't know if the court would pick this up. States right and all that. However, this current court.. conservative as it may be, does tend to be more constitutionally oriented. If the case is presented as unconstitutionally favoring one gender over the other, I think it has merit. Having said that, I'm often wrong... ask my wife.
Mary0826 #6

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/12/2019 07:56:33Copy HTML

I was thinking about the swim caps that were mandatory for women to wear up into the 1960's. (I never had to wear one, but my Mom and Dad told me about them.) Anyway, the theory was that loose hair could get into the pool and cause issues -- hygienic issues from not washing, goofing up the pool filters, and simply the fact that people didn't want to have hair floating around them when they swam. Two thing probably contributed to the removal of swim cap rules, or at least them not being ignored. (A few places where I have looked at the rules and regulations still require women to wear swimsuit caps, but the rules are no longer enforced.) First is the fact that people used to wash their hair only a few times a week. Old movies often have lines where women would say "I can't [do something] because I have to wash my hair.] At some point probably in the 1960's hair washing became a daily event. Today, many people wash their hair whenever they take a bath, which can result in multiple washings each day. This obsession with cleaning hair so much has removed the hygienic issues. People now don't say hair is bad unless it is pubic hair, which is still considered dirty no mater how much it is washed. But the other thing that I think helped get rid of those swim caps was that men started growing their hair longer and longer. Even if you were not a hippie type, long hair was in. Look at old news casts or recordings of old TV shows including news programs, and men's hair was often covering their ears and down to the shirt collar or even longer. Even Nixon had longer hair in this period. As more men started wearing longer and longer hair styles (including many non-hippie men wearing shoulder length or longer styles) the look seemed to grow and grow. Within a decade or less, many men sported hair that was sometimes quite long. Sure there were some old-timers who didn't like seeing men with long hair -- probably since clothing was also getting more uniform between the sexes, and it was harder to tell a man from a woman. These old timers used to simply look at a person (especially from the back) and if they had even somewhat longish hair, they assumed the person was a lady. If they had short hair, they were assumed to be a man. Likewise if the person wore a dress, they were a lady, while pants made them a man. Many people had to re-learn how to tell a man from a woman, and even today is sometimes is hard even for me. There are a few people I run into, such as a manager at a local store, who are like the "Pat" character that used to be on Saturday Night Live. Their features, hair styles, clothing, and even voice make it impossible to know which sex they are. But I digressed a bit. As the men's hair got longer and longer, they were getting into the area where the justification for wearing swim caps was being made. According to my Mom, some pools that required swim caps on women changed their rules to say "Anyone with long hair [or hair longer than ...] must wear a swim cap." So about the same time men were sometimes required to wear a swim cap, the issue of the whole need for a swim cap disappeared. I think in this case, there were other factors involved, but swim caps non the less were no longer mandatory most places, and the fact that men might have to wear them in great numbers might have been part of the reason. Another thing that is interesting is that in the early 1980's, the longer hair styles gradually changed to much shorter hair on men. During this period, I have been told that a man was not considered manly unless he had very short to short hair. "Macho" men did not have long hair, although real Macho men from Hispanic areas almost always did. In the US, only older Hippies, old Veterans, and a few others got to wear their hair long. Thank goodness that now men can wear their hair any way they want! Maybe someday it will be the same for minimal swimwear and thongs.
stringueur #7

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/12/2019 12:32:42Copy HTML

Interesting but i think you are totally wrong with the swim caps. In my country, the rules depends on the swimming pool. Swim caps protect your hair. If you swim regulary, it is better to put a swim caps. Hairs in water is a very bad thing... everyone loose hairs each day. In the water, the floating hairs are very unpleasant because for swimmers. Moreover, the hairs can damage the pumps. So swim caps is better for everyone. BUT when it is too difficult to make people respect the rules, some pools prefers to change the rules. That is the reason why some pools don't oblige the swim caps during summer but oblige during winter. What is interesting is, it is the same for thongs or cheeky swimwear. When there is 1 or 2 thongers each year, it is easy to forbid them. When there is 10 or 20 thongers each year, it is difficult to forbid them and the staff prefer to authorize them. So, the more thongs or cheeky swimwear, the more tolerant rules
J_R_365 #8

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/12/2019 02:14:39Copy HTML

I saw some pictures of a beach here in Chicago, that were taken in the 1920s. Not only is every man wearing a full length swimsuit, but a straw hat as well.
JM_Runs #9

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/12/2019 05:31:16Copy HTML

Swim caps make you faster, and for people with long hair help keep the pool cleaner. In an old house like mine, with "difficult" plumbing, we have hair filter on the shower. You would be amazed how much you shed in just a five minute shower. Many boats where the shower pan is below the water line have hair filters on the showers, mounted out of sight, to protect the shower drain pumps. Recreational swimmers dislike swim caps, so most outdoor pools, normally used in the summertime, have relaxed the rules. When they are planed and built they have larger filter systems to deal with everything from human hair to blown leaves. Requiring swim caps is similar to banning cotton clothing, keeping the hair and lint out of the water. As to going topfree, this has to be lead by young women. Backed up by men who are prepared to defend their right to do so, and run of the gawkers. It seems to me there has been more acceptance of topfree women, but less actual change on the ground. Less women just going topfree on the beach where progress is more likely to be made. I don't know the solution, but maybe emailing the tourist office for the town or county and asking if women can go topless on the beach, and if not could they recommend a nearby town where your wife / friend / partner could go topfree. Tourist offices, mostly ineffective to start with, hate recommending somewhere else.
Beached_Santa_Cruz #10

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/13/2019 05:13:23Copy HTML

I wear a lycra swim cap and I shave my head. My dermatologist said my scalp has had enough sun for a lifetime. I even wear a rash guard for half my swim for SPF. I swim at my gym pool where most women and even a lot of guys wear swim caps. I used to swim at a pool in Santa Cruz owned by the city that used to have "open" swim in the afternoons and weekends during the summer where anyone (all kids) can come in and swim. On Mondays it was disgusting. I can't tell you how many hair balls I spit out while swimming. They would attach to my face and when I went to inhale I'd suck them in. You could see all the hair in the pool as you did laps.
JayByrd #11

Re:If men were required to wear tops, how long before women's anti topfree laws would be eliminated?

Date Posted:03/13/2019 01:49:30Copy HTML

In the mid 70's to early 90's I was a member at a gym called Chicago Health and Tennis Clubs, which was later bought by Bally's. They required a swimcap to be worn by everyone regardless of hair length. But getting back to the original post. I don't believe there will ever be a law requiring men to cover up. If it happens at all, it will be because of male peer pressure. Look at locker rooms these days. Men shower in their baggie swimwear and change while doing the clutching towel dance. I think top-freedom has to be pressed by women, and like JM-Runs said... backed up by men. It's not a right that is going to be given to freely. Like most freedoms it needs to be fought for. Having said that, I hope it's sooner than later. When my wife (then friend) first came to the states, we had to buy her a bathing suit top. She never owned one and didn't think the states would be any different than Europe. She hates bathing suit tan lines with her off-the-shoulders summer dresses.
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