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bodyphil #301

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/05/2011 04:26:21Copy HTML

I live in two towns in Europe : Bucharest/Romania and Munich / Germany.

Summer has started and I can report that male runners are generally wearing shorter shorts than last years. I have seen a good proportion of male runners in shorts cut off just below the thigh, and almost no sightings of "board shorts" for athletic activity. In the swimming baths the proportion of speedo type swim briefs to long shorts is also higher than it was. A review of swim wear in major department stores showed almost equal amount of speedo type shorts as "long shorts".

Perhaps we finally have a turn in the fashion length for men´s clothing,  I hope so anyway.
thonglife #302

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/05/2011 12:31:23Copy HTML

bodyphil, That's great news. I wish/hope that such a trend would spread in the US.

For my part, I wear shorter shorts for running now than ever before. Generally I wear men's black compression shorts with a 5" inseam. They usually ride up an inch to become 4". My lose running shorts are a 3" inseam that I wear on group runs and for races. I prefer the compression shorts though and do all I can to perpetuate the style for guys.
bodyphil #303

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/05/2011 08:07:32Copy HTML

Hope the Economist does not mind me copying from their website:
QUOTE
GULLIVER recently spent a week in the south of France that brought into focus a local clothing law that could easily catch visitors out. In most French public swimming pools men are not allowed to wear "Bermuda-style" trunks. You have to wear either un slip de bain (the skimpy trunks of boyhood) or un boxer (which looks like a weeny pair of cycling shorts). So when Gulliver turned up at a wonderful 50-metre pool, such as France has in every town and Britain has 30 of in the whole country, he discovered his trunks were complètement interdit. There's no getting around a rule like that, but I was saved a wasted trip when pool staff lent me an old slip they had found festering in a corner. If you're a pasty-skinned Englishman at an outdoor pool surrounded by basking, tanned French youth, you don't really want to be wearing a 13-year-old's swimming briefs, but at least my wife found it hilarious.If anyone can tell me why my longer trunks are such a menace to public safety, I would be pleased to know. In the meantime, swimmers heading to France should choose their swimming togs with care. Business travellers using hotel pools need not fret, though, as private establishments can make their own rules.
UNQUOTE

The apparent explanation is that French swimming pools are unchlorinated. They suspect that persons in longer trunks might be wearing them all day and then jump into the pool bringing in infected germs etc. Whereas "le slip" is small, has no room for contagious bodies, etc etc.

So now we have another reason for wearing speedoes and thongs in public swimming baths.
beachlion #304

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/05/2011 11:59:51Copy HTML

The French pools are in general less chlorinated or not at all. So they don't want people in with boardshorts and problably some other "shorts" under those as well which they wear all day. The boardshorts bring in also a lot of sand and dirt in the case of a camping pool. And when leaving the pool those layers of clothing also take out a lot of water.
Those rules started to be implemented about a 15 years ago. It was also slowly spreading to Spain and Italy.
thongboi73 #305

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/06/2011 12:34:46Copy HTML

I don't think anyone has mentioned that laundry detergent does not completely rinse out in the wash. Bulky materials trap more sulfates in it's fabric which is released in the pool when swimming. This discolors the water, can clog pipes and filters, and promote algae blooms. 
shireguy69 #306

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/07/2011 07:01:38Copy HTML

just orderd 2 pairs from barecode berlin 80's retro shine shorts red & blue. these are realy cool looking i wonder how they will go this summer in aus.
JM_Runs #307

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/07/2011 11:38:51Copy HTML

 I just got these three in the mail:
http://bodyaware.com/product/view/Q014
http://bodyaware.com/product/view/V201
http://bodyaware.com/product/view/S233

All three are very short and show a bit of cheek if you pull them up even slightly.
My favorite is the the Booty2 Short.

I have no idea if I could ever wear these anywhere except as underwear
or maybe a beach coverup...
tanandtaut #308

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/07/2011 08:32:35Copy HTML

I have owned a pair of the Bodyaware S233 short shorts since last year (see profile images Short Shorts).  This year, I have worn them almost everywhere: bank, post office, grocery store, tanning salon, home depot, movies, gas station, fast food restaurants, gym, and in public generally.  I have had no adverse reactions, only a few double-takes, and actually some compliments about my legs and my tan.  It seems that this year short shorts are in style, especially among females.  Although these shorts push the envelope somewhat, like the ad says, they are very comfortable and need no underwear.  Mine are the navy blue which de-emphasizes your package in comparison with the lighter colors.
MattSprat #309

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/07/2011 10:17:26Copy HTML

 killa - I've got a pair of the booty2 shorts in grey and love them.  the perfect casual short for lounging around the house or yard or running to the corner store.  I usually wear them with a t-shirt and flip-flops or sneaks.  Wish I had gotten them one size smaller.  Next time I'll read the size chart before ordering.  There's no reason you can't wear those shorts in public, as long as they're activity appropriate.  the size-to-fit shorts look ideal for jogging.
trapking #310

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/12/2011 09:03:11Copy HTML

The short shorts thread made me think of this as my favorite pair of shorts that are about ten years old had wore a hole in the crotch area.  I was going to just throw them out but then in the fashion of a kilt decided to try cutting the center out and try them as a cover up.  A little more wittling in the front and back and these former short length shorts made a Kilt or "skirt" that looks at first glance like a pair of shorts.

They are super comfortable, show a little cheek and great for working around the house.  On the negative they are totally inappropriate if I squat, bend or sit down in them but standing and walking they work great.  I wore them most of the morning Saturday watering flowers and hoeing the garden.  Pulling weeds showed a bit more cheek than is normal in our neighborhood but I had fun showing a little.

I will mainly use them as a thong cover up but once in awhile just as clothing.
nicksthong #311

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/17/2011 01:01:57Copy HTML

It made me laugh yesterday while canoeing;
I was wearing a pair of jean shorts, cut off about two inches above my knee.  I found myself thinking, "ah hell, I wish I didn't have such long shorts on today."  Then I looked around, and noticed that every other man's shorts were at least four inches longer than mine!  Perhaps I have been wearing bikinis too long...
BaltoBob #312

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/17/2011 12:57:33Copy HTML

I needed to buy some chothes for a 2 week visit to my knew granddaughter. I bought 2 pair of cargo shorts from Wal-mart.com. I've only worn 1 of them and when I wore them over to do some work in my elderly parents yard last week, I thought someone was tripping me. The bottem of the shorts kept catching my knee as I walked (it was hot and humid). I can't believe guys wear these all the time
Tanned Bum #313

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/17/2011 02:42:55Copy HTML

Not to highjack the thread but, I was at the marina yesterday. I'm 5'11" and a guy about 5'2"-3" comes walking by with Jean shorts (not modified) down to his ankles and the crotch was at his knees and wide legs. It was about 84 degress out. I was thinking and staring, short people should not wear long shorts. But I'm sure if he saw me in a thong, he would of thought something too.
BaltoBob #314

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/18/2011 03:24:18Copy HTML

Wore this to Home Depot Sunday morning. I only wore the tank top inside the store. Walked accross the parking lot in just my girls shorts. Note the trim on the pockets. Store was mostly empty but ALL the customers were men.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24894360@N03/5937052135/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24894360@N03/593328119
BaltoBob #315

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/19/2011 03:03:04Copy HTML

I found what may be the perfect shorts to wear in public. 4" inseam, no decoration that says "girlie". Theses I can and will wear in front of my 79 year old mother. The only thing they lack to be GUY shorts is a longer zipper.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Faded-Glory-Women-s-Basic-Twill-Shorts/15041659?findingMethod=rl
wackymac #316

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/19/2011 11:19:49Copy HTML

Have about 6 pair of them, size 12.  Great shorts and the best thing about them----my wife picked them out for me.
BaltoBob #317

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:07/20/2011 11:22:04Copy HTML

wackymac, you must be doing something right.
These are size 14, I'm too fat for a 12. They go up to 18.
darksmooth #318

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 02:34:23Copy HTML

BaltoBob, I did some shopping at Home Depot and Lowe's also, in some of my workout-type shorts cutoffs.  In my images section under "shopping 2011", the Lowe's cutoffs pics show my Adidas black cutoffs, and the Home Depot cutoffs pics show my Adidas blue with white stripes cutoffs.
mack_back #319

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 06:19:00Copy HTML

Darksmooth:Congrads on having the guts to wear them that short. I have no seam boyshorts underwear that are that short on my rear end.I try to wear reebok side pocket athletic nylon shorts with no lining but are not as short as yours are. Only problem wearing shorts like mine is when I put in my wallet or keys loose change the pockets tend to show below my leg hem. Just wanted to know where you keep your keys wallet etc.. That's why I usually wear long cargo shorts for pockets I can put many things in at least when I go to the store. Material is cotton and thick making uncomfortable feeling even though I wear a thong underneath.
darksmooth #320

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 06:31:17Copy HTML

Mack_back, I just hold the wallet and keys in my hands when wearing these shorts.  I'll set them in the shopping cart fold out section if I use a cart.  If I'm wearing cutoffs with pockets intact, I'll just let the pockets hang down and put my keys in them.
luvnmythong #321

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 06:43:48Copy HTML

When I'm out in my very short shorts, I carry a small nylon 4 X 6" zipper bag.   I bought something one time that came in the bag.   It holds my wallet, my checkbook, and my keys.  It looks like something you would carry for a camera or maybe a cell phone.   It's not big enought to be a "man purse", so no one thinks anything about it.  At least I have it all intact and not exposing my wallet and check book laying out open in the shopping cart.  Works for me!
tanandtaut #322

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 07:13:47Copy HTML

 Darksmooth

Just wondering how you take those pictures?  I have a pair of Body Aware S233 in Navy that are a little bit shorter than what you are wearing which I wear to HD or Lowes, among other places, but I have been unable to have any pictures to show :(

BTW you wear them well.  You have a good tan and keep your legs shaved, as do I, which helps.
darksmooth #323

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/02/2011 09:21:38Copy HTML

Tanandtaut, thank you for the nice words.  You're right, smooth is the only way to go.  I have a Nikon Coolpix with time delay.  I use a 10 second delay for the pics.  I think I'd like to try a pair of the S233s.  I looked at your pics.  Those do look like they're the length I like!
BaltoBob #324

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/03/2011 09:48:20Copy HTML

Wore my new shorts to dinner at Mom's yesterday. My brother was wearing shorts below his knees of course. Got home and didn't have my wallet. Popped out of those too small back pockets. Guess I'll have to go back over there today.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/24894360@N03/5964131966/in/photostream
stanpuppy #325

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/04/2011 08:57:51Copy HTML

I have found tons of great finds in the womens section of thrift stores. Today I bought a  brand called "Vital" at a thrift store.  Technically, it was in the womens section although I have no idea why.  It looks (and fits) perfectly fine on me.  There is nothing overtly feminine about them.  They are blue cotton with a white athletic stripe down the side.  The only difference is they have a 2 inch inseam instead of the mans standard 7.  I think I am going to wear them as my coverup when we go to Gunnison beach next week
20897 #326

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/07/2011 08:01:18Copy HTML

For short shorts I like the split sided shorts from Joe Snyder or Skinz. They cover just enough and come in many colors to match your thong or g-string swim suit.
luvnmythong #327

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/07/2011 11:40:56Copy HTML

For all you guys looking for short shorts, I happened upon a great collection today at Target.   Yes, they were in the Juniors section, but you absolutely cannot tell whether they would be for men or women.    They actually look like what we guys used to wear many years ago.   They are called "cheer" shorts and they have 3 styles in many colors.  The inseam is only 2 to 2 1/2".     They couldn't be more than 12 to 14 inches from top to bottom .   They are on sale this week for $9.99.    I'm going back tomorrow and buy at least 2 or 3 pair.  No one will ever know that these came from a womens department.    If you have a Target circular in your newspaper today (Sunday), they are shown in there.   Go look at them and I guarantee you that you will love them!!!
tanandtaut #328

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/08/2011 12:52:26Copy HTML



Link to above items at Target:

http://weeklyad.target.com/target/default.aspx?ref=nav_footer_weeklyad&action=entryflash
mack_back #329

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/08/2011 02:34:48Copy HTML

Cheer short what size would they fit on a man. Let say your hips are 37". Would junior sizes come to fit like a womens medium.Need some short shorts to walk around the house using adidas womens split running shorts in a medium. Looking to have some that have some stretch in them as well pockets would be nice. Using  mens baggy water shorts with liner for cooling everyday errands. Better then thick cargo shorts I tend to wear.
Thought about some 5" inseam shorts which would not be to shocking for many people to notice me. Try old navy see if they got stock in them. Find going into that women section I get stares just for looking in that area. Now I got to figure what size I may fit in. Bought diva jeans there but nobody was around and had to go three stores before I got the right size. http://m.oldnavy.gap.com/product.html?dn=op809740042&dv=1&shopid=1&pdn=oc35158
Thought to buy there ribbed female tank top close fitted but almost as long mens tanks are 26" hem to shoulder. Then need to find where i can find a small pack to strap around  carry wallet and keys.
Going with 3.5 inch inseam shorts maybe little to much for people to make comments and stares.Also tops or t-shirts got to be at least hip level. Mine are always covering my short or close to it. Having shorter tops makes wearing short shorts less weird.
Seen a cute female wearing some short jean shorts with nice legs and some button down light shirt which only went down to her hip. If I wore a button down mens top it would only cover me at mid thigh.
Just wearing my 5" inseam reebok pocket athletic women shorts. I seen the desk girl at my gym stared at me while leaving as if I was taboo to show my thighs.More and more I've been seeing more women wear burmuda shorts or long cargo ones many guys wear. I guess women are showing less leg these days which maybe okay looking at some that are pretty big. For those women who wear shorter ones they are usually pretty young.



peterjde #330

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/09/2011 11:31:35Copy HTML

After working out at the Y last Saturday. I decided to stop by the grocery store before going home and changing.  I was wearing 5" black spandex shorts, t-shirt and running shoes.  I got a cart, walked into the store, got the few items I needed and went to the self-checkout lane (as I always do).  I may have gotten some looks that I was unaware of, but heard no comments. 

Be it a thong, short shorts or whatever skimpy clothing one is wearing, I think a lot of the acceptance is in the wearer's attitude.  I wore what I wanted, went about my business and acted completely exactly the same way as if I was wearing jeans.  I thinnk self-confidence sends a message to others around us.
thonglife #331

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/25/2011 07:52:38Copy HTML

peterjde, I totally agree. Bravo on your comment and boldness to go to the grocery store. I wear 5" black men's compression shorts for nearly all my runs and often stop in coffee shops or convenience marts afterward still wearing my sweaty shorts (a thong underneath of course). I get the occasional stare or smile but I act normal and most people around me do too. My favorite thing is to run to a bar with a patio, meet my wife for a beer and rock my shorts shorts.
clean_n_smooth #332

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/29/2011 08:11:08Copy HTML

Sometimes it makes me laugh the difference between the USA and Germany (where I live). I am american so I grew up there for the first 24 years of my life before I decided to expand my wings LOL. My normal shorts that I wear have a little less then 3" inseam, these are tan in color. I have 2 pairs of the same style one in white and one in olive green, these both have adjustable inseam, by rolling the legs or not and has a little strap with button to secure the rolls. goes from 3 1/2" all the way up to about 2" or a little less. I wear these shorts daily here when the weather permits. Birthday parties, shopping, everywhere. The other day I had to go to the range and shoot for work and had on the tan pair with less then 3" inseam, nobody from work said a thing except that my legs are to pale LOL. No comments at all on the shorts. How is it that Germany, or Europe in general is not so hung up on what men "should" wear or do wear? I guess the longer I'm over here the more I would hope that everywhere would be so open and non-judgemental.
MattSprat #333

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/29/2011 05:41:17Copy HTML

 I agree, Charlie.  I don't understand why we're talking about shorts with a 5" inseam on this thread.  A compression short with a 5" inseam would be pretty common for joggers around here.  I certainly wouldn't think twice about seeing someone who had obviously just come from the gym wear that into a grocery store.  
koenig3456 #334

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/29/2011 07:54:52Copy HTML

clean_n_sm - Is it common for men wear short shorts in Germany? I wear them around suburban Philadelphia whenever the weather is warm and I've never heard a negative reaction. This summer, I visited both the outer banks of North Carolina and the rural mountain region in the western part of the state. Again, no reactions from anyone.

I think more men in the USA would wear them if they could buy them in stores. Its just easier to buy whatever is being sold in the local stores.
bodyphil #335

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/31/2011 04:40:59Copy HTML

I started this blog but feel that we are often talking about three different subjects

1. Running shorts for men and athletic activity.This is where the topic started, as I was asking about reactions to side split nylon shorts wth minimal coverage.  WEll in summer any shorts going below the knees, are not actually shorts. Ones above the knees which allow movement vary from the modest to the minimalist. I`ll put some pics on my profile showing shorts which I consider brief, but which I wear regularly for jogging.
2. Shorts for every day wearing for men when shopping relaxing walking in the park etc. These are basically what th last three mails are talking about. The answer is that shorts with 3" in seam are perfectly ok in a European context.
3. Shorts for women. I do not profess to be an expert on this subject, only noting that women are usually going much shorter and tighter than men do, esp in jeans shorts.
mack_back #336

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/31/2011 03:02:17Copy HTML

I agree shorts I wear or use to buy at old navy cargo ones aren't really considered shorts but Capri pants. Any shorts that hang at the knees or tiny bit below are exactly what women wear as Capri pants.So now I refer to my cargo shorts as Capri pants if anyone asks.Bought some 5 1/2 inch in seam old navy women shorts I now wear almost anywhere I can. Cycling going to the store noticed some people notice me being they are snug along the hips but not tight. Like them a lot find them lot more lighter and comfortable to wear around town. Pockets are small but I can put in my wallet in partially which works okay.As for women wearing shorter tighter shorts yes find the 3 inch in seam are more tighter fit for most I see around town. Some girls I noticed even try to pull them down so there butt cheeks don't show when they walk. 
jn9195 #337

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:08/31/2011 05:00:17Copy HTML

I don't think anyone should wear the long jean shorts - not just short people as Tanned Bum said.  I think they look "retarded".  The Cargo shorts and stuff are fine if they are the right length, but I don't "believe in" any purchased jean shorts.  If you are going to buy shorts, then buy some shorts that look good.  Jean shorts should only be cut-off jeans. :)

thonglife #338

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:09/24/2011 02:35:06Copy HTML

Where we live - short shorts are very uncommon for guys except lose running shorts. Girls wear tight short shorts but I am the only guy I ever see out running in them. I'll post a recent self pic of myself in my shortest shorts in our images gallery. I do wish more fit guys would dress the same.
BaltoBob #339

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:09/24/2011 02:46:12Copy HTML

Just back from Vegas. Wore my short shorts all the time. Added 1 pic from there to my photos.
luvnmythong #340

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:10/27/2011 03:52:07Copy HTML

Today on my AOL home page, I see the headline....."Embarrasing '90's Photo of Bill Clinton and Al Gore Surfaces".    Out of curiosity I clicked it on to see what they had done that was so embarrasing.    The Huff Post Style section of the internet newspaper has posted a picture of Clinton and Gore out jogging in 1992.   Oh my gosh!  They are in short running shorts.  Next to this horribly embarrasing picture is the following statement....."and sorry, gents, but we're REALLY glad those teensy shorts have hightailed it out of style".     I guess this means that if we wear anything shorter than board shorts while out running or working out, we're so out of style!   Sorry Huff Post, but I guess I will just be out of style and continue wearing my short shorts anywhere and everywhere I want!  I guess I should be so embarrased......but I'm NOT!
peterjde #341

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:11/05/2011 05:54:00Copy HTML

I wore my Under Armour 4" inseam black spandex shorts (with a thong underneath, of course) and t-shirt to the Y to work out this morning; I haven't worn these to the Y before, but usually wear 5" or 7" inseam shorts or full-length tights.  After stretching, I ran on the treadmill.  I'm sure other people noticed, but I heard no comments.  I'd like to try something even shorter, but probably won't do this at the Y---I'll do it when running outside, instead.
darksmooth #342

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:02/25/2012 07:23:20Copy HTML

Just got some Booty2 shorts from Bodyaware.  I love the fit and look.  And they are extremely comfortable.  If you like getting cheeky, these are the ones for you.  You can wear them lower on the hips if you want to cover the buns more.  I posted a few pics under "Booty 2s".
thonger2005 #343

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:02/27/2012 02:27:36Copy HTML

 digging the shorts  darksmooth, very nice pix.
MattSprat #344

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:02/27/2012 05:02:33Copy HTML

 Your Booty2 shorts look good.  I've got a pair too, but I obviously got the wrong size.  Mine aren't nearly snug enough.  Did you intentionally buy smaller than normal, or did I just miss the boat?
darksmooth #345

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:03/02/2012 04:08:35Copy HTML

Thank you Thonger2005.  And Matt, I did buy a small, primarily because Bodyaware is out of medium right now in all but white.  I'm a 31-32 waste so I'm borderline on the small and medium.  However, I do like the fit and feel a lot!  I contacted Bodyaware to see when they'd have mediums back in stock.  They said three to four weeks.  I'll get a couple mediums and probably hit the outdoors in them once the weather warms up.  Thanks again.
azcraig #346

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:03/13/2012 02:52:54Copy HTML

I was at Wal mart today. It was sunny and in the low eighties so I was wearing a t shirt and cut off jean shorts with about a one inch inseam. Very short by mens standards, but what I wear. As I stood in the check out line a black lady comes up and hands me a pair of baggy shorts that would probably come down below the knee. She said "here you need to buy these" holding them out for me to take. I asked her why I would want those to which she resonded "so you don't has to borrow yo daughters shotes". I told her these are mine and my wife cuts them off short like this, that why they are called shorts, no thanks. She then said Yo wife needs to cut you off some new shotes because thems too shote and they ain't no man what wears shotes like that". I told her  "her man does". She mumbled something as she waddled away. (she probalby weighed 300 pounds). The couple in front of me, the guys says to me "good come back". His wife said "shes just jealous".
darksmooth #347

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:03/13/2012 03:10:40Copy HTML

AzCraig, that was a great story.  I got a chuckle out of it.  Way to stand your ground!
tanandtaut #348

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:03/13/2012 04:59:22Copy HTML

 Just goes to show the old cliche is true:  You can take the girl out of the ghetto, but you can't get the ghetto out of the girl.  Well played, AZCraig.
cr15gust #349

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:04/16/2012 09:16:36Copy HTML

ASICS runnning shorts is the best... need to cut/remove the inner lining.... wear with same color thong underneath... very comfortable.
Soft material, sheer/translucent but no one can see unless they are very closeby....
Feel like wear nothing.
Other 2nd fav are those shorts from bodyaware.com, they are really great... unfortunately the nylon split breeze shorts no more available.
sundog516 #350

Re:Short Shorts

Date Posted:04/30/2012 04:40:35Copy HTML

I bought some booty shorts from bodyaware you can see them on my profile. 
Please cutback on starting new threads and try to post messages as a reply to existing threads.
If you want to cut and paste from your word processor do not do it directly.
First paste it into notepad or other basic ascii editor so that the formatting codes are removed, then cut again. This will give you clean posts.
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